@cinnamoroll You should try my program builder: templatetrainer.com just put in one program that you want to do that’s a higher volume program, and take it to completion and see what your progress is. Then run another program that’s lower volume and compare the results. I made this workout app for research on myself as I felt stuck as well, but it’s free to use right now until I get way too many users then I have to charge for server costs.
@cinnamoroll That Dr Mike etc are juiced out ..get some actual lifetime naturals who knows recovery and stuff .. from my experience when I got stuck 75kg I just ramped up protein by 50 grams .. removed flat bench/deadlift for year .. and only focused on incline press and rack pulls ..my upper back and upper chest blowed up and got upto 90kg ..so best approach is change ur exercises that you weak in and less days in gym means save ur calories and recovery time increase ..maybe u in catabolic state all the time lol
@lancslad91 The problem is that it's so hard to get a clue about who is natural or not cause everybody seems to come clean after decades of lying. At least mike Israetel is honest about being enhanced.
@cinnamoroll I'm amazed nobody said this here but congratulations, you've reached your natural limit lmao
If you didn't make even the slightest progress in this 10 years span even with the shittiest program, I doubt any "optimized" program will do.
Its either pinning or accepting it. Welcome to natural bodybuilding.
@disciple8 I don't believe I've reached anywhere near my natural potential - I refuse to believe that. Lol.
But on the other hand I find it impossible to get a clue as to what natural limit is as everybody claiming natty and comes out 10 years later admitting to juice.
Do you have suggestion to a bodybuilder who could actually be natural, not a genetic freak and have gotten great results?
@cinnamoroll Bro, the fact that you have a good attitude and are willing to accept advice, even though it may be a tough pull to swallow is fkn awesome. Seriously.
@dawn16 Thanks a lot for the kind words. It's really nice of you.
But yea, I would feel stupid asking for advice and then just brushing off everyone's opinion if I didn't agree. I know I'm doing something wrong, that's why I'm seeking aid!
@cinnamoroll Are you eating enough for a sustained period of time. I did this for a few years I spin my wheels making little gains until I stuck to a surplus for months and months.
@cinnamoroll 175cm, 80kg. Well, it certainly depends what body fat percentage you have. Could be that you reached your genetic (realistic) potential. So what's your boy fat %?
@spiritualbutterflies I'd say somewhere between 12 and 15%, but that's just my estimate. I've posted pictures here too, so you can look and judge for yourself.
@cinnamoroll You are 15%. Do the following: make quick cut to give yourself some room for growth. A month and a half at 600kcal deficit to get real lean. After that do a clean bulk on Mentzer at 200kcal surplus.
I am similar age/height/weight and doing just that! Been on Mentzer only 3 weeks (3 days breaks between workouts, 1-2 sets per big muscle groups, that it. Small always only 1 set). If you want, we can do it together!
You look more muscular than me, you look good: the cut will give you motivation (you will look much better at 75kg) and give you room to not get fat on the bulk.
@cinnamoroll I've noticed as I approach 40 that if I don't pay special attention to shoulders, arms, traps, and prioritize them in that order over everything else, it will look like I don't even lift. I'm only hitting legs and back every other week now because I'm trying to grow these genetic lagging parts and growth will lag if I'm hitting other bigger muscle groups. Maybe kust ease back on your compounds and just focus on your arms , shoulders, traps & chest for the rest of the year and see how you look
@thegreatbear08 Thanks for the advice.
Have it worked for you focusing more on the arms and delts? And have you noticed anything negative in regards to only training legs and back every other week?
@cinnamoroll I was able to get my biceps back to over 18 inches since going to legs and back every other week. My arms stop growing if I blast legs and back twice a week so I tried this change up and it worked for me. My delts are getting bigger and capped again with a focus on seated rear delt Flys and side laterals. When I do legs and back I also feel rested and am able to go heavy, so it's every other week for me with a focus on lagging parts. It got rid of that feeling of not seeing progress
@cinnamoroll do more volume with quality. Dont train below 6 reps and at max 20 reps. I train for over 10 years and find sets with less 6 reps dont offer the same stimulus. 6-10 is usually the sweet spot. Ditch DUP or powerbuilding where you have heavy and light days. You need to train specific. So I would just bench with 6-8 reps two times per week for example. Dont do something like 3-5 on monday and 3x8-10 at your training age. Your reprange should be the same or really close to another. For injury prevention or overuse problems, just do different assitance lifts on those days.
Unlike the internet wants you to believe 140 kg for bench is really good. You are benching over 1.5bw. This is better than advanced. My estimated 1rm is only 6 kg higher but I weigh around 86 kg. If you want to improve your bench you have to gain weight. You are not going to get stronger at 80 kg. Your squat is weak you maybe doing too much or too low volume for your quads. Maybe experiment with more than 20 or less than 10 sets per week for your quads.
Maybe you are bathing in systemic fatique all the time, especially if you train 6 days a week (idk?). Sessions with 2 hours are fine. Its always better to get your volume done if possible in less training days. Try training with 3-5 days per week. If you do not need high volume for every bodypart even three days can work.
