Pull-ups and Science

[hermit76]

@silverfang Okay, I get it now. I was just imagining a different image than what you were talking about. I was looking at it from the side instead of the front so It was literally just a different perspective.

 

[frances6098]

@this_dot Thanks for this. Did you come across any studies that deal with the possible correlation between pull up/chin-up in alleviating back pain? In my case, chin-up seems to alleviate my back pain (mid back area), which subsides every time i do chin-ups regularly but will resume when i stop doing chin-ups.

 

[pinky1993]

@frances6098 Sounds like you're possibly benefiting from the decompression of your spine, or perhaps that painful area of your back is a bit hypermobile and the chip-up really helps you engage your core and other supporting muscles for stability, or perhaps a bit of both.

If your back also feels better when you lay on your back with your knees bent or propped up, it would favor the decompression hypothesis (unloading weight from the spine).

 

[frances6098]

@pinky1993 Thanks for the tips. Laying on my back with knees bent does feel better. Again, fwiw I mainly do chins (underhand grip) and rarely pull-up (overhand grip). I wonder if doing only dead hangs will also alleviate the back pain as it also decompresses the spine. Although in my case I feel that it’s the pulling motion that seems to help the most in keeping the back pain at bay.

 

[pinky1993]

@frances6098 No problem! I would be curious to know if horizontal pulling while seated or standing gave you pain relief since it uses so many of the same muscles as a pull up/chin up while your spine is still load bearing. And dead hangs do decompress the spine, but I'm personally able to relax and get more benefit for my back while pushing myself up on chair arms while seated and focusing on relaxing my lower body.

A lot of decompression stuff like that will mostly target the lumbar spine and have less of an effect on the thoracic spine, and your pain sounds like it could be around the thoracolumbar junction. I would suggest rolling and lying on a foam roller daily.

Like this: https://www.indianworkouts.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Upper-Back-Thoracic-Spine-Roll.jpg

and this: https://homegymr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Foam-Roller-Thoracic-Spine-Matrix-Exercise.jpg (focus on keeping the low back in contact w/ roller during this stretch)

I'm just an internet person who can't see you and doesn't have your full history. If the pain persists, gets worse, or is just too annoying, you'd benefit from seeing a physical therapist. Most back pain is biomechanical in origin and can be identified and addressed quite quickly with a PT.

 

[noodlesandmeatballs]

@frances6098 Doing chin ups simulate back traction which is a technique used in physiotherapy clinics to treat back problems like slipped discs. That's probably why your back pain goes away when you keep up a consistent pull-up regime but it's not a cure-all for any back problems.

If you have consistent issues with your back, go see a doc and he'll probably recommend an x-ray and maybe a MRI scan to boot. Meanwhile, maintaining a good posture and sitting habits (not slouching) are some steps you can take to prevent back pain.

 

[frances6098]

@noodlesandmeatballs Thanks I’ll probably do that soon. For the record, I mainly do chins (underhand grip palm facing me) and rarely do pull-up (overhand grip palm facing away). Not sure whether it makes any difference. I feel chins hitting the problematic area better fwiw.

 

[noodlesandmeatballs]

@frances6098 Try hanging on the bar for as long as you can hold on. You'll be basically performing a traction session on yourself. Don't know whether chin or pullups are more effective at relieving back pain but you should definitely do what feels right for you.

 

[ellie21]

@this_dot

The authors concluded that reverse technique (chin-ups) and wide technique have movement patterns that could indicate higher riskof injury.

Wouldn't have guessed that.

 

[this_dot]

@ellie21 Regarding chin-ups, it appears the problem is the external rotation, and it's more noticeable in the hanging and starting phases.

For wide pull-ups, there's an interesting concern:

The wide pull-up may therefore be associated with an increased injury risk, a concern given the popularity of “Kipping” pull-ups (swinging and then performing a dynamic wide pull-up)

 

[beslowtoanger]

@this_dot Probably should read the article but I assume the injury occurs during he eccentric phase? Lol I work in a crossfit gym, every time I see kipping pull-ups I die a little.

 

[quake]

@this_dot I don't ever come back down to "hang" after I come up on the first one - I stop short due to elbow and previous shoulder pain. I wonder if removing that "hanging" portion removes some of that risk. It's almost the equivalent of close grip curls on a barbbell where you can't straighten your arms in front of your on the bottom of the movement. Hmmm, more to think about.

 

[this_dot]

@quake It's possible...
This is a single study, and it's not showing a higher number of lesions comparing a group that does chin-ups and a group that does pull-ups. It's just a theoretical hypothesis.

Personally, if I was doing a lot of volume, I would avoid chin-ups. But I don't think the evidence of only this paper is enough to ditch chin-ups or wide pull-ups.

 

[dawn16]

@ellie21 Dumb question are chins palm facing u or away

 

[jmount78]

@dawn16 Your palms face you, similar to a bicep curl

 

[seekinggod96]

@ellie21 I thought it might be true. When I do chinups, I sometimes hear popping in my shoulder (but no pain). That doesn't happen with pullups.

 

[kirag]

@ellie21 I thought narrower grip induced internal rotation and possible impingment, odd.
I've been doing wide for years under the belief it not only better recruited all of the involved muscles, but minimized shoulder injury risk

 

[niceguy4jesus]

@kirag I hurt my elbow in a way that I can't do pull-ups at all, but can do close-grip chin-ups with no problem. Driving me crazy.

 

[dawn16]

@this_dot Any information on neutral grip (palms facing each other)? Is there likely to be a difference in muscle recruitment or is it a good middle ground between pull up and chin up?

 

[this_dot]

@dawn16 Yes!

Other article: Electromyographic analysis of muscle activation during pull-up variations.

They compared pull-up, chin-up, rope pull-up and neutral grip. Mostly similar, however more activation of mid trapezius during eccentric phase on pull-up. The conclusion:

It appears all four pull-up grips will elicit similar strength adaptions when
implemented in resistance training settings.

EDIT: changed link to free pdf