Surplus or deficit calories ?

porfin

New member
Hi Reddit ! I just have a quick question that hopefully someone can put me in the right direction

I’m 167 lbs (76 kilo) 6 foot 0, Male and I’m 30 years old.

I’m about to start the 5 x 5 strong lift program for 12 weeks, to get that initial foundation of strength before I start getting into hypertrophy programs.

however I wanted to make sure I’m eating right first. (I’ve transitioned from vegetarian to whole-foods-plant-based)

At my height and weight, and my low muscle mass (coming off injury, blah blah) I’m a little chunkier than I’d like to be, last time I checked I’m around 21-22% BF.

if I eat in a deficit, will I still build strength ? From what I heard the 5 x 5 program gets difficult pretty quick.

If I eat in a surplus, I’ll get the strength gains sure, but my BF % and weight will increase won’t they ? And it’s pretty high already.

Thanks in advance
 
@porfin Hey man, I’m in a semi similar boat, or was, imo you could eat at maintenance or a slight deficit and still get stronger and have some hypertrophic effects. It sounds like you are de- trained which is a great state to lose some fat and add a bit of muscle. My recommendation is to cut until you get where you want and then maingain (eat at maintenance and lift your ass off) and slowly add muscle. I’ve bulked and cut before, went from 210 to 245 and went from a 315 dL to 435 max , but am paying for it losing all this fat. It’s much healthier to grow slowly, and invest into long term health and gains. Better for your heart, longevity, your endocrine system, thyroid , all of it. If you want to chat more I’m around :)

Edit: the heart is more importanterr then the biceps so add in a few walks or cardio sessions maybe LISS or MISS a few times a week. You will feel better abd your 5x5 program will feel better on your body. Ps- I’ve ran SL 5x5 3 times , my first time I went from 135 5x5 bench to 195 5x5 and 135 squat to 255 5x5 squat. Train hard eat (not too much) and REST and you will be in good hands. But obs this is just my opinion and other might disagree and I’m okay with that. Much respect.
 
@theexpat Great answer ! I didn’t consider the de-trained aspect, you are right, 10/10 for observation. Considering all that, I think I might just eat in a deficit to begin with.

Well done on your 5x5 lifting history, that’s very encouraging
 
@porfin Thanks! If you go deficit maybe start low 200-300 and see how you feel, as always the first 2-3 weeks your body is just re normalizing anyways :) let me know how it goes!
 
@porfin You're in a prime position for a recomp, just eat at maintenance calories until you stall the linear progression on the main 3 lifts, by then you'll have leaned out a bit and added a fair bit to your lifts, even more so if you're getting newbie gains/muscle memory gains.

That being said... I spent years chasing my tail on 5x5 programs thinking I needed a 'base of strength' before I could pursue size, but if hypertrophy/aesthetics is the goal, just start lifting for that now. You can still linear progress the lifts until they plateau and a good program will incorporate Squat, Bench, Deadlift and OHP anyway. But - if you're on a good program - you'll be gaining a bit more muscle than on 5x5 (in my admittedly anecdotal experience)!
 
@porfin I lowered my body fat percentage first to below 8%. I ate at a deficit but still built muscle because I was a beginner at the gym. So my body fat percentage went down but the scale went up because I gained muscle as a beginner. It's up to you if you feel confident enough in your body and do a bulk to cut later. I didn't feel good in my body and didn't have a lot of confidence so I wanted to lose weight first.

I did StrongLifts 5x5 first to get stronger as fast as possible. Building strength and adding weight each week to make progress. Than I switched to Ivysaur 448 for a more optimal training program. It should get you results faster than StrongLifts 5x5. I've you've still got potential to apply progressive overload regularly I would do Ivysaur 448 untill you are barely making progress and then switch to push pull legs.

You'll have to apply lineair progressive overload basically adding weight after a week. I switched from StrongLifts 5x5 to Ivysaur's 448.
Ivysaur's 448 focuses more on volume, frequency and DUP(Daily Undulating Periodization) to get better results in less time. Read Two Easy Ways to Make Your Novice Strength Training Program More Effective which talks about periodization and volume. Mike Zourdos talks about DUP in a video for those of you who're interested as you can apply it to any program. Here's his AMA about DUP. Also read The Bogeyman of Training Programs (and why it may be just what you need) with an example of DUP.
With Ivysaur's 448 you'll do bench press and overhead press each workout but with a different volume by alternating between 4x4 and 4x8 as seen here. If you want better results over time you should definitely check this out. I did this for more than a year for more strength. It seems more complicated but all it takes is a bit of calculation to determine the weight. I also added bicep curls, seated row and lat pulldowns. You could also include pull ups.

You have to calculate TDEE and you have to eat enough to fuel your workout. I play football, go running and ride my bike off season, I walk a lot and I go to the gym so I have to eat 3600kcal or more. It's about calories so eat a bit less(300 to 500kcal) than your body needs and you'll lose weight. Eat a bit more(300kcal) and you'll gain weight.

I have a meal plan and be creative it's just about the calories and protein want to eat more veggies? Eat less oats or whole wheat pasta. I make wok, lasagne, spaghetti, curry, chili, wraps and so on. Don't let it fool you. Be creative!

Eat a whole foods plant based diet so eat oats, brown rice, potatoes, lentils, kidney beans, chickpeas! I eat a high carb low fat diet with 3600kcal and 1a70g of protein. I lowered my body fat percentage from 12% to below 8%.

Here's a typical day of eating for me while bulking with 170g of protein and 3600kcal.

Here's a typical day of eating while cutting with 120g of protein and 2000kcal without a protein shake.

Another typical day of eating while cutting with 94g of protein and 1500kcal without a protein shake.

Another typical day of eating while cutting with 112g of protein and 1505kcal including a protein shake.

Here's a meal plan with 1173kcal and 92g of protein including a protein shake.

1173kcal 92g protein Meal plan 64% carbs, 9% fat, 27% protein

Use cronometer to track calories.

According to this article you don't need to overkill on protein : https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle for natural trainees. This already includes a mark-up, since most research finds no more benefits after 0.64g/lb.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5867436/

Study from 2018, Protein supplementation beyond total protein intakes of 1.62 g/kg/day resulted in no further RET-induced gains in FFM. Credits AromaticLab7.

I'm 72kg and need max 120g of protein and min 100g of protein. When cutting I had a protein shake.
 
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