@patrick226 Anjuli has a similar build. Her recomp journey is super inspiring.
What's an actual realistic goal? Pictures and current routine included
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patrick226
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@tomline56 Surprised to see this as well! I thought abs were a requirement to be successful at comps, but maybe not! Her look at her show is similar to what I achieved this summer and I’m like was I stage ready?!?!
@patrick226 I also do SBTD! For anyone who isn't, express is still hard af. For abs is equal parts having low bf% and having the muscle there to show through.
I highly suggest the Macrofactor app - it has an algorithm that adapts to your input and goals (lose, maintain, gain). My calculated TDEE was apparently way off when I started using it.
I highly suggest the Macrofactor app - it has an algorithm that adapts to your input and goals (lose, maintain, gain). My calculated TDEE was apparently way off when I started using it.
patrick226
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@patrick226 you need to eat more!!!! especially lifting 4x a week and getting good general activity otherwise
all of my aesthetic progress that is am proudest of and that is most visible came from eating at a surplus and getting way stronger. once you have the muscle it’s much easier to cut fat because your body will do it for you (more muscle mass = higher metabolism)
once you’re putting up larger numbers in your main lifts and accessories, the visual results of cutting your calories will be more in line with what you’re looking for.
all of my aesthetic progress that is am proudest of and that is most visible came from eating at a surplus and getting way stronger. once you have the muscle it’s much easier to cut fat because your body will do it for you (more muscle mass = higher metabolism)
once you’re putting up larger numbers in your main lifts and accessories, the visual results of cutting your calories will be more in line with what you’re looking for.
@patrick226 Workout Routine:
Strength Training: You've been lifting heavy for a long time, and that's great! To target specific areas like shoulders, arms, and abs, consider incorporating more targeted exercises like shoulder presses, lateral raises, bicep curls, tricep extensions, and various ab exercises like planks, Russian twists, or hanging leg raises.
Consistency: Try to maintain consistency in your routine despite your busy schedule. Even shorter, intense workouts can be effective if focused on the right exercises.
Nutrition:
Caloric Intake: Based on your activity level and workout routine, a 1400-calorie intake might be too low, especially if you're lifting heavy and aiming for muscle definition. It's crucial to fuel your body adequately for both recovery and muscle building. Consider aiming for maintenance or a slight surplus to support muscle growth while gradually losing fat.
Macronutrients: Ensure you're getting enough protein to support muscle recovery and growth. Aiming for around 0.8-1 gram per pound of body weight is a good target.
Strength Training: You've been lifting heavy for a long time, and that's great! To target specific areas like shoulders, arms, and abs, consider incorporating more targeted exercises like shoulder presses, lateral raises, bicep curls, tricep extensions, and various ab exercises like planks, Russian twists, or hanging leg raises.
Consistency: Try to maintain consistency in your routine despite your busy schedule. Even shorter, intense workouts can be effective if focused on the right exercises.
Nutrition:
Caloric Intake: Based on your activity level and workout routine, a 1400-calorie intake might be too low, especially if you're lifting heavy and aiming for muscle definition. It's crucial to fuel your body adequately for both recovery and muscle building. Consider aiming for maintenance or a slight surplus to support muscle growth while gradually losing fat.
Macronutrients: Ensure you're getting enough protein to support muscle recovery and growth. Aiming for around 0.8-1 gram per pound of body weight is a good target.
@patrick226 nothing wrong with having an aesthetics goal. I agree with a lot of the advice here but one thing that's worth pointing out regarding the question in your post title: maybe a realistic goal is not to try for visible abs while you're also in grad school. both of those things aren't just goals like "run a 5k" or "lose 10lbs" or "reach a 100 day streak on Duolingo", they're long-term goals that require major lifestyle changes, many of which are more or less in direct conflict with each other.
so I won't say that you're doomed to never see your abs, though especially for women it depends heavily on genetics how easy it is to get there. but you may need to think about what you're actually able to accomplish in a day and whether the stress and time commitment of grad school is going to make it too hard to maintain the gym routine and diet changes (whether bulking, cutting, or maintaining with a high protein target) needed to reach your aesthetic goals.
so for now you might have to settle for being a pretty damn strong babe who's kicking ass academically.
so I won't say that you're doomed to never see your abs, though especially for women it depends heavily on genetics how easy it is to get there. but you may need to think about what you're actually able to accomplish in a day and whether the stress and time commitment of grad school is going to make it too hard to maintain the gym routine and diet changes (whether bulking, cutting, or maintaining with a high protein target) needed to reach your aesthetic goals.
so for now you might have to settle for being a pretty damn strong babe who's kicking ass academically.
@patrick226 I’d define first what type of visible abs you’d like to have.
It will depend on your body composition, my composition is very slender and I struggle to create muscle that’s why when I wanted the visible abs it wasn’t as simple despite being already low body fat, they couldn’t be noticed at 20% body fat when I know people with 22% and they’re visible which is basically their muscles. So it will depend on your body type.
I was so determined to have them that I dropped my body fat to 17%, basically on a 200 calorie deficit per day, I work out chest, core, and biceps the most so the whole core, chest and shoulders came by themselves.
To get there I avoided ALL dairy for months.
I weighted my food just to make sure I was on 200 deficit, never did macros it was just super clean eating high protein and 100 gr of carbs more or less…
Let me tell you something, it was super mentally challenging and (at least to me) 90% will depend on your consistency with food, but I wanted them so bad.
Having low body fat and defined toned body you need to be prepared mentally, I’m not a sweet tooth person, don’t like desserts or candy or chocolates etc, and I still struggled. My goal was just too strong and some days drove myself crazy
I have never bounced because I needed to make that mental switch, so if you’re prepared then by all means go for it!
It’s more simple than you’d think in terms of what to do.
Eat on 200 deficit, lift, but most of all, defined body it’s all about food.
The hard part is creating a habit of eating really clean,
You can do express lifting sessions, 30 min it’s enough, I , also it seems to me that your lifting routine might not be strong enough for you. But judging by the photos it’s also the body fat.
lift till failure and slow, keeping good pose is super important too
Last comment: if I were you I wouldn’t eat on surplus.
Avoid dairy, alcohol for months if you can, snack on fruits and vegetables, avoid too much oil as they add so many calories, keep the salt low but don’t cut it
Sorry if I sound like a bitch but take advice from people that actually got to have body fat under 20%
I don’t want to sound like a bitch but I see so many people giving advice and they’ve never been under 19% BF
You want the abs you’ll have to make drastic changes, it is what it is, if you’d like to maintain them once you have them only you can tell if it’s worth it.
It will depend on your body composition, my composition is very slender and I struggle to create muscle that’s why when I wanted the visible abs it wasn’t as simple despite being already low body fat, they couldn’t be noticed at 20% body fat when I know people with 22% and they’re visible which is basically their muscles. So it will depend on your body type.
I was so determined to have them that I dropped my body fat to 17%, basically on a 200 calorie deficit per day, I work out chest, core, and biceps the most so the whole core, chest and shoulders came by themselves.
To get there I avoided ALL dairy for months.
I weighted my food just to make sure I was on 200 deficit, never did macros it was just super clean eating high protein and 100 gr of carbs more or less…
Let me tell you something, it was super mentally challenging and (at least to me) 90% will depend on your consistency with food, but I wanted them so bad.
Having low body fat and defined toned body you need to be prepared mentally, I’m not a sweet tooth person, don’t like desserts or candy or chocolates etc, and I still struggled. My goal was just too strong and some days drove myself crazy
I have never bounced because I needed to make that mental switch, so if you’re prepared then by all means go for it!
It’s more simple than you’d think in terms of what to do.
Eat on 200 deficit, lift, but most of all, defined body it’s all about food.
The hard part is creating a habit of eating really clean,
You can do express lifting sessions, 30 min it’s enough, I , also it seems to me that your lifting routine might not be strong enough for you. But judging by the photos it’s also the body fat.
lift till failure and slow, keeping good pose is super important too
Last comment: if I were you I wouldn’t eat on surplus.
Avoid dairy, alcohol for months if you can, snack on fruits and vegetables, avoid too much oil as they add so many calories, keep the salt low but don’t cut it
Sorry if I sound like a bitch but take advice from people that actually got to have body fat under 20%
I don’t want to sound like a bitch but I see so many people giving advice and they’ve never been under 19% BF
You want the abs you’ll have to make drastic changes, it is what it is, if you’d like to maintain them once you have them only you can tell if it’s worth it.
@patrick226 You should NOT feel guilty about having aesthetics goal - there is nothing wrong with training for aesthetics instead of training to lift the heaviest weights. Both are viable goals. Some would say that running a marathon under 4:30 or swimming 2000 meter in under 40min is a healthier goal. There are lots of fitness goals you can have, none are holier than others - you do you.
First of all you need to set your priorities. What do you want most - reduce body fat and get visible abs - or increase your PRs on the main lifts? Then you adjust your training and nutrition to meet that goal, and accept that the other goal probably will suffer. It is unlikely that you will gain much strength while trying to lose significant body fat.
As you have already trained for 10 years and not reached your goals, this is a good time to reach out to a professional coach. But to have success with the coach, you need to be crystal clear in what you want to achieve - not both maximise your deadlift AND get visible abs. If you can't articulate your #1 priority to your coach, it's virtually impossible for the coach to tailor the program and progress and changes for you.
And... as others have mentioned... sometimes ab lipo is the way to go. Some call it cheating, others think it's expensive, in the end only you can decide. But you'll probably be surprised to how many fit women have (secretly) had ab lipo including ab sculpting. Nobody needs to know but yourself.
First of all you need to set your priorities. What do you want most - reduce body fat and get visible abs - or increase your PRs on the main lifts? Then you adjust your training and nutrition to meet that goal, and accept that the other goal probably will suffer. It is unlikely that you will gain much strength while trying to lose significant body fat.
As you have already trained for 10 years and not reached your goals, this is a good time to reach out to a professional coach. But to have success with the coach, you need to be crystal clear in what you want to achieve - not both maximise your deadlift AND get visible abs. If you can't articulate your #1 priority to your coach, it's virtually impossible for the coach to tailor the program and progress and changes for you.
And... as others have mentioned... sometimes ab lipo is the way to go. Some call it cheating, others think it's expensive, in the end only you can decide. But you'll probably be surprised to how many fit women have (secretly) had ab lipo including ab sculpting. Nobody needs to know but yourself.
morethanokay26
New member
@patrick226 Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but it looks like you have anterior pelvic tilt. Fixing your posture may help quite a bit in your quest.
nonaffiliated
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@patrick226 I’m not an experienced lifter like you but one of the best tips my trainer gave me was: if you have health insurance, access a Registered Dietitian. I have very mediocre insurance but video calls with an RD are fully covered. I knew how to lose weight but couldn’t do it while lifting due to constant muscle fatigue. Ended up with a permanent food baby and higher cholesterol. The RD gave me really smart swaps on food to up my protein without saturated fat, and almost a recipe for spreading protein out through the day. No explicit calorie counting or cutting but I’m regaining my flat stomach.
Also, if calorie counting is not your thing (like me), try cutting something else. You can maybe do a version of intermittent fasting if you’re careful about protein?
Also, if calorie counting is not your thing (like me), try cutting something else. You can maybe do a version of intermittent fasting if you’re careful about protein?
@patrick226 I had similar ish stats and body composition to you. Everyone's body is different. A small calorie deficit and my performance suffered a lot. I knew myself realizing this is just the body I have and calorie deficit isn't worth stalling and reducing my strength and cardio.
Fat cells shrink but don't go away. Unfortunately that's just where the fat cells are.
However I did get some liposuction 360 around my whole torso. That worked really great and after getting lipo I realized I would have never gotten my current body with any manageable diet.
Even at my skinniest, 95lb I was still skinny fat in the torso. Just genetics on where the fat cells divide and multiply.
Fat cells shrink but don't go away. Unfortunately that's just where the fat cells are.
However I did get some liposuction 360 around my whole torso. That worked really great and after getting lipo I realized I would have never gotten my current body with any manageable diet.
Even at my skinniest, 95lb I was still skinny fat in the torso. Just genetics on where the fat cells divide and multiply.
@patrick226 It’s not unrealistic to obtain defined abs, but may be unrealistic to keep them. Simply put, you need to get to a lower body fat percentage before your abs will be visible.
Do you feel weak or like you’ve plateaued? Either way, you have to fuel your body in order to add more weight at the gym, do more reps, or whatever variation of progressive overload makes sense for you. I think you should start eating at your TDEE consistently. The added calories should allow your body to push harder and add more muscle. Then after a few months of that, you decrease your calories to cut down to a body fat percentage you are happy with. Muscles NEED fuel/calories to grow. If you have days where you are under-eating and expending lots of energy, you’re not giving your body the additional resources it needs to change body composition.
I guess the other somewhat related thing is it sounds like you may have gotten yourself into some disordered eating. You may need to tackle the mental burden you are putting on yourself. Change your feelings and behavior around food and learn to not see food as the enemy. I don’t know about you, but if I feel like I overate, it would immediately mess with my mind, and I would accept/assume that it’s gonna go straight to mid-section. Then it would cause a vicious cycle of feeling ashamed, then I would become less active for a bit. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those days where you feel like you over-consumed, enjoy it but don’t let it get in your head too much. Correct your eating plan the next day and go get a heavy pump in. All the extra calories means you’ll likely be able to handle increased weight.
Do you feel weak or like you’ve plateaued? Either way, you have to fuel your body in order to add more weight at the gym, do more reps, or whatever variation of progressive overload makes sense for you. I think you should start eating at your TDEE consistently. The added calories should allow your body to push harder and add more muscle. Then after a few months of that, you decrease your calories to cut down to a body fat percentage you are happy with. Muscles NEED fuel/calories to grow. If you have days where you are under-eating and expending lots of energy, you’re not giving your body the additional resources it needs to change body composition.
I guess the other somewhat related thing is it sounds like you may have gotten yourself into some disordered eating. You may need to tackle the mental burden you are putting on yourself. Change your feelings and behavior around food and learn to not see food as the enemy. I don’t know about you, but if I feel like I overate, it would immediately mess with my mind, and I would accept/assume that it’s gonna go straight to mid-section. Then it would cause a vicious cycle of feeling ashamed, then I would become less active for a bit. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those days where you feel like you over-consumed, enjoy it but don’t let it get in your head too much. Correct your eating plan the next day and go get a heavy pump in. All the extra calories means you’ll likely be able to handle increased weight.
@patrick226 A bit of a tangent, but did you try MacroFactor for calorie tracking? I've been on a 70 day streak on Cronometer and installed MacroFactor today. Cronometer is really nice at tracking and MacroFactor takes a lot of inspiration from it here, being developed by former Cronometer users, but also adds better data interpretation and visualisation. It basically has those TDEE spreadsheets build in as a central feature and the weight trend graph is also really nice.
@sf3612 seconding, I had the same thought.
I lost 48lbs from June 2022 to September 2023 tracking with MacroFactor (now maintaining). for anyone who's comfortable with tracking and serious about body composition changes, it's absolutely worth the subscription price. the UX is super smooth and they continue to make improvements, so tracking has become second nature for me. it's adherence-neutral so it won't yell at you for missing a target. and while it's not necessary to dig into how things work under the hood in order to benefit from using it, the transparency and thoroughness in their documentation makes me feel confident in the app's recommendations. not to mention the vigorous work that's been done to improve the food database.
as you said, you could accomplish the same thing with spreadsheets that compute an exponential moving average, but the experience with MacroFactor is much more pleasant imo.
I lost 48lbs from June 2022 to September 2023 tracking with MacroFactor (now maintaining). for anyone who's comfortable with tracking and serious about body composition changes, it's absolutely worth the subscription price. the UX is super smooth and they continue to make improvements, so tracking has become second nature for me. it's adherence-neutral so it won't yell at you for missing a target. and while it's not necessary to dig into how things work under the hood in order to benefit from using it, the transparency and thoroughness in their documentation makes me feel confident in the app's recommendations. not to mention the vigorous work that's been done to improve the food database.
as you said, you could accomplish the same thing with spreadsheets that compute an exponential moving average, but the experience with MacroFactor is much more pleasant imo.