19.3, an owner’s ignorance, and a culture of cheating

@will8764 This is the fault of the judges allowing it, not the athletes. Someone needs to call them on their "bro reps" if the athlete doesn't have the integrity to police themselves.

As an example, I STRUGGLED with 19.3, due to bad shoulders in an overhead movement. I didn't finish my lunges in the 10 minutes. Many times I had to go back to the beginning of a 5' section because I didn't finish it without dropping the weight. My judge was getting confused with the markings on the floor and pointed to a line for me to restart a section that was 1' back from where I was. I knew the actual line was 3' back from where I was. I could have listened to my judge, but I'd just be cheating myself.

If the athletes don't have integrity, the judges need to. If they don't, the affiliate owner needs to. If they don't...well, they all suck.
 
@will8764 members judging members is just people not having the confidence or desire to tell their buddies they have to redo it. Or not being sure and erring on the side of allowing it. Id not sweat it.

Judging the owner as being 'disinterested' and 'ignorant' is tough. you were texting him. maybe he was dealing with something else at the time. maybe he made an innocent mistake and had bigger issues on his mind in the moment you guys had that text exchange. maybe hes got serious personal stuff going on that you dont know of or who knows, 1000x other possibilities. Maybe he really IS disinterested and checked out. if so offer to step up and handle setup for the next round?

You're right to uphold standards, but you're also (from what I see and read) projecting a worst case scenario on all of this.

Remind the open judges and participants of standards and do a quick demo of whats good and a bad rep before the open sessions you oversee, and lead and be the change you wanna see! :) Good luck!
 
@will8764 In my opinion, think it depends on the athlete. If it’s a 60 year old lady that wants to do it for the fitness, sure, hammer down. But if you’re signed up and submitting a score, play by the rules.

I put my hand on my knee 2x during the box step ups Friday night and didn’t realize it was against the standard till this morning. It bothers me that I didn’t hold that bit of the standard and I struggled mightily trying to hold the HSPU standard for the few I did. I try hard to check myself with these standards because, like it’s been mentioned so much above, it’s about integrity.

I heard someone say the other day that the reason those rep shavers and poor effort folks bother me so much is because I’m afraid of seeing that in myself. It’s not about them and their fitness, my “anger” is about me and what I can do. All I can do is control my reaction to the situation.
 
@will8764 I'm late in on this but I agree 100%

At our box prior to the open workouts the coach gives a little talk about the Open and what it stands for, that it is the time of year that high standards must be held, that integrity is essential and no reps can be expected.
This and going through the standards in detail I think creates respect and the right culture and sets expectations.
 
@will8764 No, I think that you are correct. Yes, there is an element to having fun in the Open, but it's also a competition with rules. Honor the spirit of the competition and follow the rules. Or don't participate if you can't do that. I have personal experience with being in an environment where cheating and cutting corners is tolerated, and I can tell you it can ruin a place. Keep em honest.
 
@will8764 While I've personally never seen 'cheating' at any of the boxes I've been a member at, given the large number of people involved, there are is undoubtedly some cheating. Cheating should never be accepted or allowed.

Given that most of the boxes use regular members as judges during the games, there will be some variation in the standards. Maybe a wallball is given if it is close and you tell the athlete to watch the next one. A clear no rep is always a no rep, but if it's right on the line there could be some judgement.

Then there is just laziness on the part of owners and judges. If I saw the above at my gym, I'd start looking for a new box. Good owners run good boxes and those boxes attract good members.
 
@will8764 I'm a member of 3 years not an owner. This is an issue especially if members are submitting scores online. At minimum it means false scores being used. Even of people aren't submitting to the games site it's breading a environment of low standards. I would be pissed if someone said "oh yeah I beat you on 19.3" leaving out or not realizing their coach let them short change it.

I drop in a lot. Every good gym establishes good movement and score standards, and tells athletes if they need to adjust anything to record it a modified.

It's impossible to catch every instance of someone not locking out a rep or not quite hitting their knee to the floor during lunges, but blatant cheating is not what CF is about and should not be tolerated.

In years past there have been ways to report abuses like this. Don't know if that's still around. But I would definitely find a different gym to work at that has more integrity.
 
@will8764 You are not being too sensitive. It is a cultural issue and the workout should look the same for everyone around the world. During 19.3, our coach was actively approaching both athletes and judges to let them know about standards not being met. Because she wanted us to understand the movements and become better at them as they were originally intended to be executed. Everyone thought that was great.
 
@will8764 First, shame on those saying it's an "acceptable mistake". It's cheating, there is no way around it. it doesn't matter if they are games athletes or overweight moms, the owner is promoting a terrible culture that says "you don't have to do it the right way". Shame on him or her.

I would 100% find another box that values integrity and honesty because those start at the top.
 
@will8764 To be honest though, when you have members judging members, there are going to be questionable calls, some missed reps, some bro reps etc. I actually think the problem rest more with the judges than the athletes. When I did comps, if the judge let me get away with a questionable lockout on a push press, and that allowed me to squeeze a few more reps, I did it. I kept going hard until the judge said something...so long as they kept counting reps, I kept working. My focus was on working hard and following my plan, and letting the judge worry about counting my reps. No different than an umpire giving a pitcher the benefit of outside the strike zone pitches. You play to the judge in a comp. Many member judges don't want to call no reps, so they let shit slide. If you coach the judges about the standards and they start calling them early, then athlete will respond and adjust quickly.

If this is a box wide issue you see daily, that is a different issue. In a CF Box, movement standards are important, it seems this is an indicator of quality coaching. Hitting proper height for your wall ball? Depth in a squat. Locking out for push ups. These things do matter because eventually people can start hurting themselves when they get real weight on the bar, try to progress in gymnastic movement etc and they really having built up the strength or range of motion.

50' vs 25' though, that seems more like a mistake that wasn't worth correcting. The same work is being done. The same effort is being done. All members of the box all are being judged by the same standard (not letting member A cheat reps vs. member B). I don't see this as an issue.

If the rest of the standards are well coached, people are moving well, injuries are kept to a minimum, I wouldn't be too concerned.
 
@jhm59 I agree with most of what you said, but a 25' course is more work. Those turnaround transitions were awful and slowed down all the momentum you built. I'd rather to a longer walk an less transitions.
 
@vessels I can see your point. If the whole box was doing that distance, then it still seems like an acceptable mistake. If you correct it midstream, it creates inequity within the box. For the owner, better just to let it ride.
 
@will8764 I agree with you completely that this is an issue. Is it worth getting fired over though, that’s the question? I’m a big believer that you should just do the right thing, regardless of the controversy it causes. Professionally this has been massively to my detriment, I’ve learned that being right won’t save you.

If I were you I’d try to just create a better culture
 
@will8764 it's an integrity issue, if your gym is validating these scores, than it's an issue. If it it's internal scores only and people are just cheating themselves, then it's not as big of an issue.

My box owner though has had some hard conversations with people who obviously are inflating their scores or not meeting standards because he doesn't want to be the one on the hook when someone gets DQ'ed after their videos are reviewed.
 
@will8764 If you payed $20 to register for the open and you are submitting scores, you need to follow ALL the rules or be disqualified.

i cant stand the people putting up "competitive" scores for online judging with bullshit videos, or even no videos at all.

look at this guy. 11 rejections and 7 score needs modification but his score still seems to count for week 1. he'll probably make it into the AGOQ if these scores stand.

Or this guy. a GI JOE cartoon video for his submission in week 2

after that, there are tons of videos from week 1 and 2 that dont appear to even have been scored at all and still count.
 
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