UPDATE: I’m having almost no luck building muscle. VIDEOS ADDED

[hellokitty]

@ilovebilliejoearmstrong Ok I will drop the weight a but and focus on good form for the db press and other exercises.

 

[ilovebilliejoearmstrong]

@hellokitty Good idea. PM me if you need anything else

 

[neshemah]

@hellokitty As the others said, it looks like you’re doing all triceps for your incline db bench. Others have given you a ton of advice, so to not pile on with the same stuff, I’d also suggest watching shitloads of YouTube form videos about like “common mistakes” and stuff. Sean N, Nippard, all guys with good advice on form (and also can teach you how to think about your own form and intensity when lifting).

 

[hellokitty]

@neshemah Thanks!

 

[gamehhh]

@hellokitty OP, I replied on your first post and after watching a few of your vids i also agree on the mechanics point. But first, something VERY important - your breathing is off in all the vids i saw. Before you are about to push for your rep take a quick deep breath (but not so deep it is uncomfortable) and hold it while you push. Your lips should be puckered or pressed tightly closed and your cheeks should have some air in them. As you push hard you should feel the pressure and tension inside. You have to hold this feeling and push off of it. That's where a good chunk of strength comes from. Near the end of your rep as you exert a lot of force your breath should naturally come out (it should come out anyways at the end of your rep). The first example of this i thought of is the devon larratt vs john brzenk semi finals match in 2015. If you look at their faces during the match you will see them do this. It's to create pressure inside the body and push off of it.

 

[hellokitty]

@gamehhh Thank you for the advice I will keep this in mind and I will also focus on better form.

 

[jankhurram]

@hellokitty I dont understand. Ive lifted for TWO WHOLE WEEKS and I’m not fucking ripped!

 

[catch_the_music]

@jankhurram That's kinda unfair.

This is a followup to the "no luck" post, asking if his routine makes sense going forward, not a continued vent that he's not making progress.

 

[hellokitty]

@catch_the_music Thank you. That’s exactly what this is. Nowhere did I say I’m expecting to be ripped in 2 weeks.

 

[starburst3316]

@hellokitty At the same time 2 weeks is nothing at all to a natty lifter and I would take any "gains" or "results" in that short of a period to be up in the air as to what it could be. Could be you slept better and feel good at your workout. Could be you ate food that is more or less bloating and your results are skewed.

2 weeks is basically nothing to a natty lifter. It's a big reason why people here are clowning on you, experienced natty lifters know that 2 weeks is not enough to decide if a program is working or not.

 

[hellokitty]

@starburst3316 I’ve been on the program for 5 weeks. And this post isn’t saying the program isn’t working. It’s an update to the previous posts with videos of me doing workouts so people can critique my form and what I call failure. Which plenty of people have done. Did you read my post? The people clowning on me definitely didn’t because nowhere did I say I wanna get ripped in a few weeks.

 

[starburst3316]

@hellokitty Yes I did. And you don't seem to be reading and taking the feedback that myself and almost every person here is trying to give. It's okay to not like the answers, but don't be surprised when people are not happy with your response. You came here for advice. Many of us have given it to you. If you aren't open to criticism then you shouldn't have made the post saying you want advice.

 

[hellokitty]

@starburst3316 I read exactly what you said. You said:

2 weeks is not enough to decide if a program is working or not.

Again. Nowhere did I say i decided this program isn’t working. This post was specifically a follow up to my previous one asking for feedback on my form and my definition of failure. And in fact in multiple comments I have specifically said that I want to stick with this program for a few more weeks because I’m not sure if the strength gains I’ve seen are real and I want to give the program a chance and the time to work. So your comment really just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I have been very open to criticism. There have been plenty of comments criticizing my form and workout and I have engaged with an open mind with them. I am very thankful for those comments and those people’s advice because it has given me pointers on things to focus that I didn’t think about, and it gave me ideas on how to change my program if I don’t see results. Which is exactly the point of my posts. What I am not thankful are the insults. Like the original comment in this thread that said:

I dont understand. Ive lifted for TWO WHOLE WEEKS and I’m not fucking ripped!

Which is insulting my intelligence and work ethic and acting like I’m complaining because I’m not jacked after two weeks. That’s not what this post is about and it’s clear this person didn’t really read my post.

 

[starburst3316]

@hellokitty Look, people are harsh - it's the Internet and you aren't face to face. The main point I think most are making is your volume is too much. If you take anything from this I hope it's at least that. Natty lifting ain't easy. It can many times be frustrating. Most of us have been there. I hope you make some gains!

 

[hellokitty]

@starburst3316 I don’t mind harsh if there’s some sort if useful criticism that comes with it.

I have reduced the volume a bit and and considering reducing it more. On day 1 I removed a set from the incline DB press and plan to remove a set from the machine row. On day 3 I’m planning on removing a set from the flat dumbbell bench press. On day 5 I’m planning to remove a set on the shoulder press machine and maybe the incline DB press.

I’m also considering removing some workouts entirely. On day 1 I’m considering removing the row machine. On day 3 I’m considering removing the flat DB bench press. On day 5 I’m considering removing the incline DB press.

What do you think of those changes?

 

[juliet_ndc]

@hellokitty How can you tell you’re not gaining muscle on this new program if it’s only been like a week? Give it time bro.

 

[mindygail]

@hellokitty You’re still very much a beginner. A lot of people have said to simplify. I 100% agree with this. You’re doing too much and are way overtrained.

I’ve been lifting on and off for 20+ years and when I have a long break, I still start slow. For example, I took a year off after my wife had our first kid. When I came back, I did essentially a modified 5x5. I’m not a power lifter, but I did that and have done it in the past because it’s a simple 3 day program that allows you to build strength and mass with lots of rest. It’s proven and it works. I did that for 3 months and then moved on to an upper/lower 4 day split. I’m 40M, 6’2”, 205lbs. I’m bigger than you and stronger than you by a lot after 5 months being back. Yeah, a lot of that is muscle memory, but I shit you not, I struggled to squat 95lbs 5x5 5 months ago, but before I swapped to my upper/lower split, I was squatting 265 5x5. That’s not crazy, but it was a good improvement for that amount of time. Do less for a while. Maybe a long while. You need to focus on getting stronger before you go ham with the hypertrophy work.

I didn’t read or don’t remember your original post, but I get the impression that you didn’t really (really) listen to the feedback you got. Or maybe you got some real shit feedback. Reddit is not always the best place to get answers. There are some people in here that really know their shit and there are a bunch of keyboard monkeys that have no idea what they’re talking about and it’s really fucking hard to tell the difference most of the time. It’s great that you sought out RP because they are reputable, BUT you are not ready for RP in my opinion. You need to get a lot stronger. And honestly, go squat. Squatting is amazing for your body composition and gains. I don’t know if you think you can’t or something, but trust me, you can. Start small. Go slow. Get your form perfect. Build some leg mass. Squatting fucking sucks. It’s absolutely the hardest shittiest lift for most people. But it’s good for you. Suck it up and start moving some heavy weight on your back. You’ll thank me in 5 years, I promise.

 

[hellokitty]

@mindygail I am considering squatting.

I have also reduced the volume a bit and and considering reducing it more. On day 1 I removed a set from the incline DB press and plan to remove a set from the machine row. On day 3 I’m planning on removing a set from the flat dumbbell bench press. On day 5 I’m planning to remove a set on the shoulder press machine and maybe the incline DB press.

I’m also considering removing some workouts entirely. On day 1 I’m considering removing the row machine. On day 3 I’m considering removing the flat DB bench press. On day 5 I’m considering removing the incline DB press.

What do you think of those changes?

 

[mindygail]

@hellokitty Honestly, I would remove whole days. 3-4 days should be sufficient for you right now. Do you have access to a barbell? I would assume so if you have a trap bar… you should replace some (not all) of your machine and dumbbell work with barbell work. Do at least one squat and bench exercise with a barbell. Get rid of things like shrugs and pec deck. This can be great, but you’re just not there yet. I never do shrugs and my traps are fine. Things like rack pulls and dead’s will give you, as a beginner, plenty of trap volume.

I would probably just go in a completely different direction, but some other thoughts… get rid of day 5. Work some curls and tricep push downs into days 1 and 3. Add some work to day 2… hack squat and/or leg extensions and maybe some RDLs.

I would also go for fixed sets. Do sets of 5-8 with your barbell work, and sets of 12-15 for machines. You can break it up differently, but that would be my preference. Establish fixed set and rep schemes, and when getting 8/15 reps is no problem, add 5-10 pounds and start at that weight with 5/12 reps and try to push more reps every week until you hit 8/15 again. Add weight and rinse and repeat. This is called progressive overload. There are hundreds of ways to achieve it, but this is just one. At this point, you’ve completely rewritten your whole program so you might as well just get a good beginner template. Just my two cents.

 

[augustbug]

@hellokitty

Right, here we go...​

Brief video analysis:

Day 1

Ex 1. Too much weight for now. Poor form.

Pull back the weight 15lbs, and focus on your form. You lean back, you have the DBs pressed in front of you in the top starting position. Immediate pointer is that your eccentric is far too fast. Your average eccentric is 1 - 1.5 seconds long. It's not enough, it's not effective - all you are doing is letting your arms drop and almost bounce out of the bottom of the press. I would advise a 3 second eccentric. This links in with the next pointer. CONTROL. With such a fast eccentric, you have little control of the movement and your target muscle group. SLOW DOWN, feel each portion of the range of motion, feel your chest engage and maintain tension to control the load to the bottom of the movement. But this is only optimal if you (pointer 3) refine the correct movement pattern. I need you to use your imagination on this. Just before you commence the eccentric portion of the movement, notice how your forearms are vertical like a flag pole? You need to maintain this vertical forearm position as you descend. Watch your video, you see that your wrists collapse inwards, creating passive elbow flexion. So rather than your forearms remaining vertical like that flagpole, they angle inwards like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. This is putting the load (weight) through your tricep, not your chest. Why? Because it is passive elbow flexion. In order to reverse elbow flexion, you go through elbow extension. Guess what that uses? Your tricep. Do you want to put disproportionately more load through your tricep with this movement? No, obviously not, because you're trying to work your chest. So to reiterate, vertical forearms through the full range of motion of the movement put the load onto the chest, as the pecs are the prime movers for the purpose of horizontal adduction. Just one final analogy to really reiterate this. Put your right hand on your right shoulder. Your left hand on your left shoulder. Lift your elbows up to the same height as your chest. Squeeze your elbows together in front of your chest. Keep them at this height, and slowly move your elbows outwards, as if you are Christ the Redeemer but touching your shoulders. Then squeeze your elbows back together in front of your chest. This is the movement you are doing with virtually every chest press, whether it is Barbell Bench, Dumbell Bench, or Flyes. This is where peak force goes through your chest. If you can grasp this, you will understand why you want to keep your triceps out of the chest movement.

To summarise - drop the weight, slow the fuck down to a 3 second eccentric, and refine/relearn the movement patterns.

Ex 2. Too much weight, slow the fuck down, AGAIN, CONTROL. THE. MOVEMENT.

Not much else to add. Put the ego aside, drop the weight. Stop letting the weight stack hit and clunk the other weights. With flyes, I want to see a 3 second eccentric with a 1 second squeeze the the peak of horizontal adduction. I don't want to hear shit coming from that weight stack. Like Exercise 1, your eccentric is too fast, around 1-1.5 seconds. You've no control, by rep 7 you begin to compensate by rounding your upper spine, encouraging internal rotation of your shoulders. How can I tell? Your elbow is disengaging from the elbow pad, and you being to press through your wrists. You're asking for injury. Lower the weight, slow the movement, FEEL THE STRETCH at the bottom, FEEL THE SQUEEZE AND MUSCLE RECRUITMENT at the top. Keep your chest "proud", don't round your back or your shoulders. The reason you made this adjustment, subconsciously, is because you are trying to leverage other muscles to create the desired output, even though they shouldn't be involve din such a movement. Remember the analogy I gave earlier about hands on shoudlers and squeezing elbows together. Same applies here. You must try to move your distal humerus (elbow) towards the midpoint of your chest. Nothing more, nothing less. Your wrists shouldn't be in this equation, and you shouldn't be rounding. You've gone to failure, but were there really any effective reps? Not really. Lower the weight, proud chest, feel the stretch, feel the squeeze, nice and slow, and then go to failure. You'll be surprised how little weight you needed.

Ex 3. Too much weight. Too fast. No control. Poor base.

Spotting a trend with from the last two exercises? Your eccentric is too fast, probably because the weight is too heavy. Therefore you have no control. You have no mind muscle connection, you are not allowing adequate time for the muscle to stretch and experience tension under a load. No mechanical tension of your musculature = no stimulus = no growth. DROP THE EGO. REDUCE THE WEIGHT. SLOW THE ECCENTRIC - 3 SECONDS! STOP LETTING THE WEIGHT CRASH DOWN, CLUNKING THE STACK AND ACTUALLY CONTROL IT.

Now you'll notice I've added another pointer. Poor base. Your feet are all over the place. Your lower chain is therefore "loose". Establish strong footing, use your quadriceps to push your hips into the backrest, brace your core, and then press. If you break the chain, you lose your core stability, and then you loose strength. You loose strength and then you do what you did, which was almost stand up in order to attempt to leverage... something. Kudos for not rounding your shoulder, and maintaining more a proud chest in this movement. But still needs a lot of improvement.

Ex 4. Too much weight. Too fast. Not enough control.

This one is different, as it's horizontal abduction. Same kind of principles apply, in the sense that it is all about what your elbows do. With pulling motions, you need to imagine your arms are hooks. You lead the movement with your elbow, as if you're thrusting backwards. Your biceps are merely an accessory to the prime mover(s), which in this movement would be multiple muscles in your upper posterior chain. I think your movement pattern is decent in this, BUT guess what... Too heavy. Too fast an eccentric. Still not enough control, but an ever so slight improvement on the previous 3 exercises. With machine pull exercises, you should do a 3 second eccentric and a 1 second hold. With free weight exercises, only a 3 second eccentric unless the movement feels safe to implement a hold.

Ex 5. Poor base. Absolute limit on weight until form is standardised.

This is better. The movement pattern is decent, the intensity is good. Your base isn't rigid enough. You need to lean forward a slight bit more, lock your feet in at shoulder width, and brace your core. Stop jumping. I can't tell if you do that because you're using too much weight or that your lack of core stability is causing you to do it to build the momentum for the movement, but I'll give BoD that it's just the poor base - do not increase weight until you've nailed this, it's a nasty exercise if it goes wrong. Also recommend cable lateral raises to complement DBs.

Ex 5. Too fast, no control.

As far as exercises go, you can't fuck this one up. But you can be inefficient. Slow. Down. Feel the stretch in the lengthened position, feel the squeeze and burn in the shortened position. Control every second of the movement, 3 SECOND ECCENTRIC AND 1 SECOND HOLD.