West Coast Classic Live Semi-Final Day Two Discussion Thread

[jkeith]

@faithfullyfit Exactly, also that ruck run a few hours earlier.

 

[cassandra23]

@dereklirus I certainly don’t consider myself elite. And I’m usually embarrassed for myself when I let my cal/hour dip below 1000. So to be there at this level.

Granted if you watch…there’s a LOT of real shitty rowing form even amongst some of these elites.

 

[little_sparrow]

@cassandra23 I think if you do enough CF, I think yo'll almost find that there's a way to 'game' rowing for cals within a CF metcon. you do CF long enough you can almost figure out how to make your rowing like more lower back dominant vs. more quad dominant, and use that depending on the workout.

also, cals rewards higher stroke rates overall, so if you can almost maintain higher stroke rates, stay loose - this could be better than trying to maintain stiffness and drive hard like 'true rowing' technique would involve.

again, the fact that it's 'rowing' shouldn't blind people to the fact that technique can be very different. this isn't to suggest that good technique isn't important - everything begins with good technique - but you can't assess elite athletes without considering the context of their movements.

it's like doing 75 power snatches @ 75# for time you will use very 'bad' weightlifting technique but it's essential if you want a fast good time. different sports overall.

 

[cassandra23]

@little_sparrow Yeah but there’s, “oh they’re doing that to just be faster” and “holy shit that’s atrocious and probably slowing them down”

Like when the seat is hitting their heels everytime they go forward, and they’re pulling the handle to their neck, it’s not helping them knock off cals any faster and if anything is slowing them way down.

We’ve seen it with other elites in other movements(Brooke wells in literally anything overhead?) where it’ll get written off as eh, they’re elite. They’re fast in spite of it. Why fix it.

Meanwhile if you listen to Fraser talking today when he was commentating. That’s why he was so fucking good. You clean up that row and pick up a few seconds. You clean up your transitions and pick up a few seconds. Etc etc and before you know it you’re 30 seconds or a minute faster without actually being anymore fit.

 

[dereklirus]

@little_sparrow (For guys) You can row at well under 25s/m and easily hold 1500+ cals pace if you are efficient and powerful with your pull. You’ll need to row at a higher rate if your technique is shit and you aren’t generating watts on your pulls. The people who have good technique + capacity are the ones well above 2000 cals pace and like 30+ s/m

 

[little_sparrow]

@dereklirus these guys "can" probably do what you say in a clean, non mixed-modal setting but the demands and technique is very different once you place them in a mixed-modal 'metcon' setting. these numbers you are pulling up are very arbitrary. FWIW, if you recall the Open workout with the AMRAP 15 19 WB/19 cal row, the elite guys were rowing ~1500 cals for that workout throughout the 15 mins. context is everything

for context: Noah took ~2:00 to finish the 40 cals. that's 1200 cals, within a like 'mixed-modal' setting. and Noah is an elite Crossfitter (though not an elite rower). and he still finished 2nd in the event.

there's almost an argument to be made that, if you are pulling 2000 cal/hr paces on THIS workout (triple G chipper) you've really fucked up your pacing of the previous movements (GHD, pistol, etc).

 

[little_sparrow]

@dereklirus eh, I think it's very context dependent.

they've just done a ruck and 2 events yesterday. they're coming in with GHDs and pistols.

you also have to remember there are the 70# DBs afterwards. someone could stay in the 900s (women) and then just kill it on the DBs. it would be worth it if that's the case.

 

[little_sparrow]

you also have to think about the differential effort required to maintain 1200 vs. 1000 cals/hr in relation to the time you would gain.

over 40 cals, a 1200 cal vs. 1000 cal is 24s gained. over a ~12:00 workout - I'd say you're better off sticking to the lower end and trying to gain time or not lose time elsewhere (esp the heavy DB, or the GHDs)

 

[jkeith]

@dereklirus They had to row in the quarter finals to make it here. I don’t think anyone that earned a spot in this comp should be embarrassed about their performance. Everyone has different weaknesses and there is no point getting off the rower and staring at the dumbbell while your heart rate comes down.

Edit: or are you referring to a specific person that you know has the capacity to do better?

 

[zongruger]

@dereklirus I was thinking the same thing watching the rowing monitor. Those pulls weren't something I'd think a pro crossfitter would be pulling. Maybe its the soreness from the ruck and heat.

 

[dereklirus]

@jonjones229 Also Justin Colter has certainly fostered an environment that produces good crossfitters. The girls are killing it right now

 

[st333333]

@dereklirus To be fair, did he produce them? A lot of them were very, very good prior to moving to Vegas

 

[grace4nan]

@st333333 This is an iteresting question which can never really be answered. If a coach gets already good athletes, then no credit is given.

But if a coach works with an unacomplished athlete who becomes good, you could easily argue that that athlete would have become good without a coach or with an other coach. So basically it's almost like a coach can only make an athlete worse or not contribute at all.

Unless there's some visible weakness that has not been improved for a good while (Horvath HSPU, Wells HSPU quality) and a new coach quickly improves it.

Or if in a systam a coach had access to thousands of young athletes and they can choose 3 of them every 4 years. And then analyze their carreer in terms of % success.

 

[dereklirus]

@st333333 valid point. More maintenance + creating an environment to get them even better now

 

[dereklirus]

@jonjones229 You live and train in San Diego and heat exhaustion got you? I am confused why CJ and Invictus wouldn’t intentionally train in heat to combat future problems

 

[turnkeyfx]

@dereklirus Vegas is much hotter than San Diego. It was 120 degrees in Vegas this week. It was maybe high 80’s in SD.

 

[charmskoolchic]

@jonjones229 Go backcountry black!! Woot!

 

[georgesblog]

@jonjones229 How hot is it there? I know there’s a crazy heat wave in Vegas right now.

 

[leggomymeggo]

@georgesblog I live in Vegas. We got up to 114 this week

 

[jonjones229]

@georgesblog It's 105f/41c outside right now