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“Renaissance periodization has jumped the shark” - Alex Bromley. Any thoughts on this video?
- Thread starter lovely_krystal86
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- natural bodybuilding
chotkisteve
New member
@chotkisteve Drama is just a side effect but there is a real conflicted perspectives here at play.
Anyway alex and mike are the only 2 youtubers i listen to on gyming
Anyway alex and mike are the only 2 youtubers i listen to on gyming
orthodox_christian
New member
@lovely_krystal86 I haven't seen one big strong guy in real life training like Mike Israetel, but I have seen plenty training like GVS.
Also, what I hate about 99% of most youtube tutorials is that:
- they are doing only a few reps
- they use beginner weight
I would, for once, want to see a tutorial where the guy does:
- one set, from the beginning to the end, with a light weight
- another heavy set, to failure, from the beginning to the end
Also, what I hate about 99% of most youtube tutorials is that:
- they are doing only a few reps
- they use beginner weight
I would, for once, want to see a tutorial where the guy does:
- one set, from the beginning to the end, with a light weight
- another heavy set, to failure, from the beginning to the end
sbrodhagen
New member
@lovely_krystal86 So I think an overemphasis on full range of motion or partials as has been the fad recently can lead to less gains.
If mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth then load is absolutely a part in the equation for mechanical tension. It has to be taken into consideration along with range of motion and how hard someone will be able to push that exercise to proximity of failure.
Not a big fan of barbell rows, but I figure one of the reasons why I see a bigger people tend to do Yate style barbell rows is because it's more stable as you push progressive overload on it while keeping form consistent. Some of these RP barbell row examples are so parallel to the floor and involve so much thoracic motion it be hard to keep progressing on them.
Reminds me of a clip Kassem was commenting on Mike about Ronnie's training. I agree with Kassem Ronnie was in the sweet spot for himself in terms of ROM and don't think he would've gotten bigger. But there's also something to say that Ronnie could've trained smarter and avoided some of his crippling injuries that lead him to the state he is in now, no you can't avoid all injuries but you can be smart about rehabbing properly and being in a significantly worse spot.
I think people have to choose the right exercises for them and take into consideration ROM, load, stability injury risk etc...
Also I'm a little concerned about the conflation of the quality of one's advice based on their personal placement in a bodybuilding show or that of their clients persay.
What would matter is the quality of their advice in how it affects those who act on it.
Now if the question is who has a better track record at getting the aspiring natural body builder ready for their first show than I think going by some people's statements here it would be 3DMJ.
If mechanical tension is the primary driver of growth then load is absolutely a part in the equation for mechanical tension. It has to be taken into consideration along with range of motion and how hard someone will be able to push that exercise to proximity of failure.
Not a big fan of barbell rows, but I figure one of the reasons why I see a bigger people tend to do Yate style barbell rows is because it's more stable as you push progressive overload on it while keeping form consistent. Some of these RP barbell row examples are so parallel to the floor and involve so much thoracic motion it be hard to keep progressing on them.
Reminds me of a clip Kassem was commenting on Mike about Ronnie's training. I agree with Kassem Ronnie was in the sweet spot for himself in terms of ROM and don't think he would've gotten bigger. But there's also something to say that Ronnie could've trained smarter and avoided some of his crippling injuries that lead him to the state he is in now, no you can't avoid all injuries but you can be smart about rehabbing properly and being in a significantly worse spot.
I think people have to choose the right exercises for them and take into consideration ROM, load, stability injury risk etc...
Also I'm a little concerned about the conflation of the quality of one's advice based on their personal placement in a bodybuilding show or that of their clients persay.
What would matter is the quality of their advice in how it affects those who act on it.
Now if the question is who has a better track record at getting the aspiring natural body builder ready for their first show than I think going by some people's statements here it would be 3DMJ.
@sbrodhagen Curious, how does being too parallel limit loads too much on bb rows? Also, are you talking about RP guys doing traditional rows or flexion rows? I know with flexion rows you do have to drop the weight a ton.
sbrodhagen
New member
@auxier587 Well if using the video is anything to go by it must be the flexion rows I guess.
But I think for most guys too parallel gets harder due to balance issues as the load goes up.
Maybe flexion rows are actually great and light up one's back but I'd rather stick to a chest supported row variation instead.
But I think for most guys too parallel gets harder due to balance issues as the load goes up.
Maybe flexion rows are actually great and light up one's back but I'd rather stick to a chest supported row variation instead.
@lovely_krystal86 The quality of RP videos plummeted. The old videos are great but the recent ones - for a year or so-been purely to feed the algorithm/attract new followership /put people in his sales funnel.
I think that's the main point. It's just a bit sad to see him going that path because he's pretty universally liked by the community.
Anecdotally, his RP hypertrophy templates didn't work too great for me. Too much volume autoregulating based on pump/perceived recovery didn't make sense. Also, definitely do much better on work to/beyond failure (GVS style) on most body parts vs 2-3 RIR.
It also happened that when i started working out I listened to a dude in my country preaching perfect form above all. I was firm-obsessed. Guess what? Was lagging behind my mates who would exercise more in bro-fashion.
It's not to say that form doesn't matter,of course. But I fully agree with GVS and his take on being a stickler to form.
I think that's the main point. It's just a bit sad to see him going that path because he's pretty universally liked by the community.
Anecdotally, his RP hypertrophy templates didn't work too great for me. Too much volume autoregulating based on pump/perceived recovery didn't make sense. Also, definitely do much better on work to/beyond failure (GVS style) on most body parts vs 2-3 RIR.
It also happened that when i started working out I listened to a dude in my country preaching perfect form above all. I was firm-obsessed. Guess what? Was lagging behind my mates who would exercise more in bro-fashion.
It's not to say that form doesn't matter,of course. But I fully agree with GVS and his take on being a stickler to form.
@tom34 I’ve not watched any of their stuff, but this happens with all the fitness YouTube channels. Quality goes down as they have to keep producing content and there’s only so much good content anyone can offer.They all go downhill eventually.
I’m not sure why people pay so much attention to any of them.
I’m not sure why people pay so much attention to any of them.
@tom34
It's all nonsense, crazy that they got so popular. No pro bodybuilders (especially natural) are training this way (feel free to check). The guys like Joe Bennet (hypertrophy coach) and Nick Gloff that are taking pros to the stage are not doing any of this nonsense, they train 0-1 RIR and keep it simple.
Dr Mike's whole approach with the constant deload, low intensity ramp up etc is based on misrepresenting the science and to work with Mike's drug cycles. Let's not forget that Mike build his physique with a cocktail of drugs and trained to failure for most of his career.
EDIT: To all the Dr Mike cultists that are angrily downvoting this comment, I'd be curious if you can route out anyone who is following Dr Mike's approach getting amazing results (the low intensity, never to failure, high volume, deload every month, yeah that nonsense) as a natural. Please post their socials and what they have accomplished.
I think it might be tough. Everyone who trains properly knows it's all BS from a charlatan content creator being a contrarian.
Anecdotally, his RP hypertrophy templates didn't work too great for me. Too much volume autoregulating based on pump/perceived recovery didn't make sense. Also, definitely do much better on work to/beyond failure (GVS style) on most body parts vs 2-3 RIR.
It's all nonsense, crazy that they got so popular. No pro bodybuilders (especially natural) are training this way (feel free to check). The guys like Joe Bennet (hypertrophy coach) and Nick Gloff that are taking pros to the stage are not doing any of this nonsense, they train 0-1 RIR and keep it simple.
Dr Mike's whole approach with the constant deload, low intensity ramp up etc is based on misrepresenting the science and to work with Mike's drug cycles. Let's not forget that Mike build his physique with a cocktail of drugs and trained to failure for most of his career.
EDIT: To all the Dr Mike cultists that are angrily downvoting this comment, I'd be curious if you can route out anyone who is following Dr Mike's approach getting amazing results (the low intensity, never to failure, high volume, deload every month, yeah that nonsense) as a natural. Please post their socials and what they have accomplished.
I think it might be tough. Everyone who trains properly knows it's all BS from a charlatan content creator being a contrarian.
@helen2002 Yeah I was actually considering RP’s 3 day PPL split. Holy crap who is this geared towards? 21 year olds with no family or obligations? It’s basically a full body split masked as a PPL. It would take two hours to complete the workouts.
Dr Mike even admitted in one of his shorts that bro splits do work and plenty of natties can get big from it.
Dr Mike even admitted in one of his shorts that bro splits do work and plenty of natties can get big from it.
@helen2002 It's scientism. If tomorrow a study says spacing out exercises with a lot of rest time they will make all videos about that, like they did with volume, rir and lengthened bias. Just cling to what the science says to play the yt game.
@livingme7 Yeah, the boring old basics don't sell. I think people should be aware that there is a coaching space and a content space, Mike is firmly in the content space.
@helen2002 Mike advertises one way to train, it doesn't mean others don't work. Joe Bennet is a science guy too, but he doesn't follow 100% of what the scientific community is doing, he developped his own way of training and passes it on to his clients.
@tay796 Funny how almost ALL the top coaches end up training in a similar way to Joe Bennet (both science and practical with a nuanced approach) and none of them train like Dr Mike who is just a content creator.
If I was looking for fitness advice and saw all the successful people doing one thing, and someone with mediocre results doing a contrarian thing.
I think it would be pretty dumb to rely on the content creator doing the complete opposite to those guys, especially when other science guys even point out that his big claims are mostly misrepresented and he doesn't really know what he's talking about.
This is the problem with online echo chambers when you have someone slightly charismatic. Utter nonsense spreads.
If I was looking for fitness advice and saw all the successful people doing one thing, and someone with mediocre results doing a contrarian thing.
I think it would be pretty dumb to rely on the content creator doing the complete opposite to those guys, especially when other science guys even point out that his big claims are mostly misrepresented and he doesn't really know what he's talking about.
This is the problem with online echo chambers when you have someone slightly charismatic. Utter nonsense spreads.
thebelovedofgod
New member
moomoo5987
New member
@lovely_krystal86 I stopped watching Bromley. His whole shtick is saying that all the more popular fitness YouTubers are shit. It gets old quick especially when he doesn't have that great of critiques of them.
dragonfruit10
New member
@moomoo5987 All the popular?
He's only called out Paul and some of the dogmatic science gurus who absolutely need to be called out for being dogmatic on very limited data.
He's only called out Paul and some of the dogmatic science gurus who absolutely need to be called out for being dogmatic on very limited data.
@lovely_krystal86 Ngl RP was some of the best info until a year or two ago. Now it’s just bs
thebelovedofgod
New member
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