Are weighted pull ups even worth it?

[ryanchamp]

@vinod367 Weighted pull-ups aren’t just worth it. I would argue that unless you have a particular propensity for another back exercise, weighted pull-ups are the GOAT back builder once you pass the utility of the stock standard barbell row & its siblings. Nobody should be choosing just one exercise for anything but if I had to, weighted chin/pull-ups are top 3 exercises period. And I mean for the whole body, not just the back.

The issue is the same as many exercises. Most people suck at doing the movement and then at best add weight the moment it satisfies some objective external criteria, like chin over bar. We are not powerlifters. Why would you want to add load? Why fatigue yourself more for the same stimuli you can get from doing better bodyweight exercises. That’s what Mike is saying. Add load if and when it’s necessary for overload. If you can’t do 15+ reps of sternum to bar then why are you concerned with adding load UNLESS you have a strength goal you’re pursuing concurrently (Alex Leonidas style). And half of that strength goal will be hypertrophying the relevant muscles anyway.

As for your video, at the very least I’d have you doing back down sets of sternum pull-ups. Why not?

 

[kohler327]

@vinod367 Anecdotic experience but my back is my best body part and I've never done a single lat pulldown in my entire life

Just years of calisthenics and weighted pullups

 

[violetsmith]

@vinod367 Some people suck at adding reps for bodyweight movements. Lyle Mcdonald has talked about this on various of his videos which is very interested. For example someone can do 5 reps at BW but 3 reps with 10kg added. Doesn't really make sense from a rep max perspective but if you try and grew that 5 reps to 12 reps before adding weight you would be stuck forever.

So choosing a rep range that favours your pullups performance is important. Someone who can only go 5 pullups is going to have a hard time doubling it to 10 before adding weight for example. Probably best to use single progression and add weight to maintain the rep range

 

[2gethamagazine]

@vinod367 Weighted pull-ups blew up my lats this year, so much so that I had to cut back on the volume and phase in other movements. But it's the bread and butter to my back training. Last mesocycle, I hit a PR of 90lbs (2 plates) for a 6 rep max, so with body weight that's 264lbs with good strict form.

So from that video you posted, there's a couple things I would suggest as you're doing pull ups like everyone does when they first start:

1) You need to control and extract your scapula on the concentric way up, and almost feel a shrug at the top of the bar movement then lower your body

2) When you lower, that's when you should slow down the control of the eccentric with your scapula and almost feel like your intentionally trying to pull your lats apart

3) You should be feeling for mind-muscle connection in your lats and not soo much hammering out reps - this you can even do lengthened [artials at the end with hanging scalp pulls

Feel free to DM, I'll shoot you my insta and send a video if that helps

 

[anderapadoker]

@vinod367 Ok so what about heavy weighted dips?

 

[archandy88]

@vinod367 I did mostly calisthenics for some time, ended up doing 20kg weighted muscle ups and 70kg pull ups multiple reps.

I am not small... Yet still, not so big. But I do lift heavier than many others who look bigger. So I guess I got a lot of strength out of it.

 

[jdmhadto]

@vinod367 I can do 15 sternum to bar pull ups. Adding many more reps is just a pain in the ass though so I do weighted 5-10. I never got Franco’s complaint

 

[lamporful]

@vinod367 I respectfully disagree. Any exercise becomes more about ego when the concern is about the weight vs the execution of the movement.

 

[guitarplayerfx]

@vinod367 Weighted pull ups are as valid as any back exercise. They’re fun, you like doing pull ups, do pull ups.

 

[pinetowntree]

@vinod367 The problem with pull-ups is that it's very hard to progressively overload because you can subtly cheat in 1000 different ways. When you add the weighted pull-up component, there's a variable that's very easy to control. The more variables that are easy to control and measure, the easier it is to progressively overload.

And, if you do lengthened partials for the last 2-3 reps, that's not cheating to me. That's just a different technique. As long as you get full depth and you don't do crossfit style reps, you're good.

 

[eighty]

@pinetowntree no it's not very hard to "progressively overload". progressive overload is a result of good training and recovery, not the cause. it might be harder for you to assess whether you're improving, but that goes for any exercise really

 

[pinetowntree]

@eighty You're being pedantic. It's hard to gauge the absolute load you're using with pull-ups because it's harder to standardize reps.

With a machine movement, it's often much easier to replicate reps with the same basic relative effort and tempo. With some movements, it's very easy to avoid cheating or body english.

And, it's often just about increments of improvement. Going from 7 reps to 8 reps is a large relative change, versus adding 2.5 lbs.

 

[eighty]

@pinetowntree no you're the one being pedantic lol. my point is, it does not matter if it's hard to gauge and standardize your reps, it is still good training. progression will come from good training, not from measuring progression

 

[pinetowntree]

@eighty No, because if you can't reliably select an appropriate load, it's going to be more difficult to avoid under/over shooting appropriate training intensity. You might think you're getting stronger when you're staying the same or getting weaker, or vice versa, leading to poor decisions about programming future training.

So, it is nice to know more precisely the dose of stimulus you're getting in each rep.

 

[junior59]

@pinetowntree this is my take as well. I don't currently program pull-ups in my routine- I have in the past and I might in the future. Pull-ups are a lot harder to do consistently and things like tempo (especially how fast I'm going down) matter more than on other exercises. An 8 vs a 10 rep set might just have different quality of execution but be same amount of stimulus. If I'm aggressively cutting (or bulking) it's harder to gauge how much changes in reps is due to bodyweight fluctuation vs progressive (or losing strength).

I find lat pulldowns more consistent personally but I have run well-designed programs incorporating pull-ups in the past as well.

 

[mmderivative]

@vinod367 In my opinion, no. You can always make bodyweight pullups harder by optimizing technique and just increase reps as well. How many people do you think can get 20 clean reps of pullups from dead hang at the bottom to bar to your neck/chest at the top? Almost nobody.

 

[helen2002]

@vinod367 I used to like them a lot but I've definitely had much more success after dropping them in favour of more boring bodybuilding focused movements.

Compared to a normal lat pulldown station

• Much more stable with no real core demands
• Much harder to cheat and helps force you into the plane of motion you're aiming for (pay attention to the last few reps next time you see someone doing any type of weighted pullup, you'll see swinging)
• Much easier to overload by using the cable stack as opposed to adding weight to a belt whilst taking into account fluctuating bodyweights throughout the day/week
• Ability to lean back on a neutral grip and truly isolate the lats, it's very hard to do this on normal neutral grip pullups.

 

[philipdaniel]

@vinod367 The point of adding weights is progressive overload. There's no point of adding weights if you're not ready to progress yet.

 

[tamarav]

@vinod367 For me weighted pull-ups did a lot for my weighted pull-ups strength wise. For hypertrophy it was just taxing and little return.

 

[rija]

@vinod367 I personally can't go to failure without weights.And my form is almost perfect.