4 - 6 exercice per muscle by workout ?

[anonymous_christian]

@solokwa You should stop worrying about optimal and what people on PEDs are doing.

 

[butterfly101664]

@solokwa If you’re really going close to failure, controlling eccentric and doing that with great range of motion. You’ll feel it.
I’d say you can test with 8, but you gotta make sure the intensity is right, first, and only then increase volume.

Another take on this; For me, if I can get 90% of the results with 6 sets, it’s not worth it to go more 6 sets for the last 10%.
I’m not saying doing 12 will optimize for the maximalist, you’re potentially doing junk volume as other folks said, but that’s also something to take into account.

 

[abbeyhouse]

@butterfly101664 Yea this how I think about it too. That extra 10% and 20 mins could be spent on lacking areas or smaller neglected muscles. I'd love to pound out 2 hour workouts 5x/week but time is the enemy.

 

[joy314]

@solokwa No. You can absolutely do more. Volume has shown strong correlation with the growth. As long as you can recover for the next session and do not interfere with your life, you can keep the volume and even increase volume. And this is with even taking every set to the technical failure.

So keep doing what you have been doing.

Jeff Nippard.

TL;DW 10~20 sets per week based on science.

 

[claudiabrinkmann1566]

@joy314 Exactly, idk why people think 6 sets is enough in a single week lol like not even close regardless of going to failure

If you take more than a week to recover a muscle group then either you need to seriously deload and reset, or there is something fundamentally wrong

 

[fateeadams]

@claudiabrinkmann1566 because that's not what @becknps said. they said they don't think more than 6 sets per session is worth it if you're going to hit that muscle group again that week (i.e., 12 sets or more total per week).

honestly, if you can't get a good workout in with 6 working sets per session/day/workout/whatever, then you're probably sandbagging it. far more experienced lifters than you or I can do more with fewer sets.

 

[becknps]

@claudiabrinkmann1566 Exept noone said anything about 6 sets in one week.

 

[losted]

@solokwa It depends on how you’re training those 3 sets. If you’re training with straights sets and keeping reps in reserve on purpose in order to hit a third exercise, that’s fine. Personally I’ve been doing 3 straight sets incline press, 2 Sets of Deficit Push Ups to failure, and then 2 sets of Dumbbell Flies (lengthened partials pulsing reps in the stretched range) to failure for my chest workouts lately, total 7 sets per chest workout. Alternatively, you could do Berkhan style RPT and do 2 sets to failure on flat and 2 sets to failure on incline and be fried in 4 sets if you really went all out. Personally, I like to rotate through approaches every few weeks to keep things fresh and have fun while making progress.

 

[anonymous_christian]

@solokwa Then you aren't pushing those sets hard enough. How are you progressing? Do you have a set rep range on the bench? Are you increasing weight/reps each time you hit a lift?

 

[tay796]

@solokwa There are multiple ways to train, that instagram post you linked is talking about one. I would assume it's high intensity medium to low volume approach.

You can very much progress with 12 to 20 sets per muscle group in a workout, many people have done it (including me), we even have that new study showing people doing double of that per week. But if you are gonna that, you need to manipulate other variables instead of just volume. For example if you are going to failure on bench and incline, adding more exercises might not help, or even get in the way of recovery, but if you do those sets to say RPE 7, maybe you can add more exercises. There is also frequency, intensity, SFR of certain exercises (bench fatigues wayyy more than cable flyes, you can do more sets of the latter).

There are a plethora of variables beyond "just do 4 to 6 sets bro"

 

[cindypierce23]

@solokwa I recently came across the same type of research that I did not know about. 6-8 sets / muscle group per session. And 10-20 sets per week for a muscle group.

Before I found this research, a typical chest day for me would consist of 4-5 sets of bench, followed by 3-4 sets of DB press, and another 3-4 sets of flys. 10-13 sets in total.

Since finding this research out, a typical chest day for me now is 2-3 sets of a horizontal press, 2-3 sets of a fly and 1 set of BW pushups to failure. So about 7 sets in total.

The quality of my workouts have gone up so much more since switching to this lower volume. I have pushed myself like never before. One thing that ive really took note of is my leg extensions. I would normally do 3-4 sets of 100-120 pounds for 12 reps. Now im doing 2 sets after squats, and last night I was able to do 180 pounds for 18 reps, that was to complete failure.

The lower volume just allows me to really push myself to that 0-3 RIR range a lot better. I notice now that before I would predetermine a number of reps (say 12) and I would just hit that number and wait for another set. Even if i had 4+ RIR.

 

[reemal]

@solokwa In the post he said do 4-6 working sets per muscle, not 4-6 exercises.

 

[anonymous_christian]

@solokwa He doesn't say 4-6 exercises per muscle per workout. He says "Only do 4 to 6 WORKING SETS per muscle in a workout". I think that is generally good advice. Once you get a sense of how to actually push yourself through hard reps, you can absolutely crush any muscle within that range.

Frequency is important here - I think that kind of set # assumes you are hitting the muscle 2x a week at least?

Disagree about the low rep only stuff.

 

[sugarcookies]

@solokwa To take his points in order:

1. Sure, absolutely train to near failure for working sets. Taking all of them to failure every time is a bad idea.
2. Technically untrue, since literature on the subject suggests 6-8 sets per muscle per workout gives the biggest stimulus, but 4-6 sets is fine as well.
3. I don't know where this myth of "more reps = more joint damage" came from, but it's nonsense. If this was actually true, pretty much all recreational runners/joggers would have the worst knee joints, but that's pretty much the opposite of what is the case.
4. Outright incorrect, especially the part about wasting time if you bulk above 13-15% body fat. Apparently, he also doesn't know that inflammation is part of the growth response.
5. Amen to this one.
6. I would change it to "Take no steroids".

 

[mollym8505]

@solokwa i personally 4-9 working sets per muscle

 

[overcoming1]

@solokwa it doesn't says 4-6 exercises it says 4-6 working set. back in day i was also doing doing more but nowdays 3-6 feels very good and i am not feeling like missing out anything

 

[johnc101]

@solokwa regarding 4-6 sets, no for 90%+ of lifters. honestly, i think more people would be better off admitting they don't know how to push to failure and accepting that, doing more volume, practicing the movements and training this skill for years until they actually can push themselves to that level. everyone and their mother says they train to failure but i just don't buy it. i'm not above it either - i trained my whole first year to "failure" low volume and did well strength numbers wise but as soon as i added more volume i actually grew. looking back now - i can tell you i was not going to failure even though i would swear up and down i was - and im sure in a few years i'll look back at how i train now and laugh at some sets i thought were to failure. every session is a chance to practice this skill and it does develop - but imo, if you don't do the additional volume to compensate then you're missing out on gains.

true failure means every rep is with max effort concentric - with max force output - and once you're not able to complete the full concentric. i literally have never seen someone do this in the gym barring powerlifters or 1rm testing. you need to be doing this every single rep and the measure of failure is when reps slow to the point where a 1 second rep is taking 4/5/6/7+. most people i see are just matching their force/effort to whatever load they have on the bar to keep the concentric controlled and i barely see slow down for later reps. take video of yourself if you want to check. easiest way is to do warm ups using max effort concentric full force - the weight should be flying. then once you get to using your working set 10RM or so - the first couple reps should be flying at the same speed as the warmups - if they're not, you're not using max effort and you can't say you're training to true failure. then, the last 2/3/4/5 reps should be slowing considerably and your last rep you should fail the concentric - but you should be outputting the same force for each rep. if you're not doing any of that - it's not true failure

all that being said, if you're actually doing the above, yeah, 4-6 working sets and probably even less is more than enough. most people aren't, should just accept it, and then adjust their training accordingly by doing more volume. which ironically is why most volume studies show more volume is better, and many people are able to make very good progress without having to train like this. you'll get better and better at pushing to this over time and naturally volume will drop - which is why tons of advanced guys advocate for it.

sorry for rant

 

[claudiabrinkmann1566]

@johnc101 I mean if I’m doing a working set of say 15 reps, you better believe I’m not pushing as hard on rep 1 as rep 13, going 100% on early reps are just wasting systemic energy. Just because you “try” harder on a rep does not mean you magically get more gains

 

[johnc101]

@claudiabrinkmann1566 yes it does. whole point of doing a set of 15 is to use the first 10 or so reps to recruit the easier to activate motor units (which control fewer muscle fibers) to then be able to then recruit the more difficult to access motor units (which control more muscle fibers) - all while using less load than a 5rm or 10rm. if you don't "try as hard" or don't use full effort - you're not going to recruit the easier to activate motor units to the same degree leading you to not be able to recruit as many of the more difficult to activate motor units meaning the set is going to be less stimulative as what you really want to activate is the more difficult to recruit motor units which control more muscle fibers.

 

[claudiabrinkmann1566]

@johnc101 Let me clarify that I am still lifting with intent, force, and good technique but I’m sorry there is no way you should try as hard on rep 1 as rep 15, you’ll gas yourself out much sooner especially on compounds where systemic fatigue is a much greater factor